In episode 20 we break out the philologic toolbox and end up with a casket of real fairytale gold
Part 1 [04:54] - In which we find Socrates moonlighting as a Taxi Driver
Part 2 [14:30] - In which we go metal detecting in a library and find that our breadcrumb trail is leading us on a detour to Italy
Part 3 [29:29] - In which we take a little cruise on a very famous ship, tune into a medieval comedy central, and find a couple of grown men calling each other names
Part 4 [40:42] - In which we go on a wild goose chase across Germany and end up in JUST the right corner of JUST the right library, where we find just the right sentence on just the right page in just the right book on just the right shelf... and holy kamoly... we find honest-to-god REAL FAIRYTALE GOLD
[WELCOME to this Podcast]
[quite a good scene, isn’t it? One man crazy. Three very sane spectators.]
[the following presentation is intended ONLY for immature audiences]
[oh my God...]
😇 🎶 heavenly choir 🎶 😇
["And God said 'Let there be F-Bombs' — And they were good — And they multiplied — Right here, in this podcast"]
🧨 🧨 🧨 [nuclear blast] 💥︎ 💥︎ 💥︎
[In the name of God, now I know what it feels like to be God!]
🎶 dramatic organ music 🎶
🎶 deep church bell 🎶
bless me Fader, for I have sinned, it’s been about 4 weeks since my last episode... and these are my sins:
I lied Fader... but I got an explanation...
🎶 Anachronist 🎶
in our last episode I promised we’d get to the very bottom of grace and declare exactly what the, uh, blessed thing is in our own day and age — and you know what I mean: the kind of soul food we can actually taste... something more immediate and real than all the catechetical abstractions and sentiments religions tell us to believe that it is...
now I’m not saying religions are wrong to do this, what I AM saying is that there’s a more naturally psychological explanation for grace we can all get behind, no matter what our religious beliefs... but I’m also talking about an explanation that makes sense even WITHIN the context of religion...
that said...my big sin is: I’m not gonna talk about grace in this episode...
[what? what! what?!]
I didn’t lie when I said I would get to the bottom of grace... I’ve just changed my mind...
[how could you, you’re so mean]
actually, that TOO is a lie... it was the material itself that changed my mind for me, and going forward, I may just turn the episode on grace into a bonus episode...
[you’ll regret that!]
So, right now I’m calling this episode 20...
[now that’s not fair!]
and IN this episode, I’m gonna share with you something pretty special... something I thought was special enough to qualify as a bonus...
I’m gonna share the intuitive trail of breadcrumbs that led me to this first part of what you’re gonna see, is a sensational fairytale find...
[yay!]
and yes, there are 2 parts to this thing... the second part is definitely gonna be a bonus episode...
don’t worry though, this ain’t no bait and switch... this first part is gonna knock your socks off...
it’s also gonna show you exactly what it takes to do this sort of intuitive fairytale sleuthing on your own... something I promised way back in episode 1
remember?
[no!]
um, why does that not surprise me...?
anyway, let me show you how I did it — and how WE are gonna arrive at the true depth of meaning the Grimms added to the story of Hansel and Gretel when they wrote:
"No, wife," said the man, "I will not do that; how can I bear to leave my children alone in the forest? the wild animals would soon come and tear them to pieces."
"O, thou fool!" said she, "Then we must all four die of hunger, thou mayest as well plane the planks for our coffins," and she left him no peace until he consented.
"But I feel very sorry for the poor children, all the same," said the man.
*🎶*🎶*
PART 1 [04:54]
Teil Eins: In which we find Socrates moonlighting as a Taxi Driver
[argidurgadurg]
Of course, back in Episode 19 we already went through the first part of that revision — the wild animals business...
[sound wild, hungry animals]
and then I confessed that the second part of it — the coffin carpentry — had me completely baffled...
[of all the worst possible things...!]
hey, being baffled is nothing to be ashamed of... in fact it’s kinda important, as long as that bafflement isn’t dismissed or ignored... you’ve got to let it become something of an irritant... kinda like an inner Socrates...
in fact, you’ve gotta let it become a Socratic state of aporia...
[what the fuck does that mean?]
well, as Socrates said to Meno: it’s the kind of bafflement that stimulates a craving to know...
<<<
the Meno (84a-c)
84c:
Socrates
Now do you imagine he would have attempted to inquire or learn what he thought he knew, when he did not know it, until he had been reduced to the perplexity of realizing that he did not know, and had felt a craving to know?
Meno
I think not, Socrates.
Socrates
Then the torpedo's shock was of advantage to him?
Meno
I think so.
Socrates
Now you should note how, as a result of this perplexity, he will go on and discover something by joint inquiry with me, while I merely ask questions
Plato in Twelve Volumes, Vol. 3 translated by W.R.M. Lamb. Cambridge, MA, Harvard University Press; London, William Heinemann Ltd. 1967.
***
and that’s why you and and me and the Grimms — we’re all here... because it was the Grimms themselves who stimulated this craving to know...
exactly WHY they did that is going to be the subject of the bonus episode... and believe me: what I found (and what I can prove) is gonna surprise a whole helluva lot of Grimms scholars and professional folklorists...
[who cares?]
well, that’s a very good point... so, not to get all academic on you: before we get started following those intuitive breadcrumbs, let me just remind you that both elements of this sentence the Grimms added to the story are examples of metalepsis...
[what did you say that was called?]
right, uh... metalepsis... which is just a fancy Greek word for a kind of literary or rhetorical trope having the power to create that special kind of bafflement...
[correct (echo)]
if you want, you can substitute the word trick for trope, because it really is a kind of literary magic trick... except it’s only meant to trick all those modern-day witches I spoke about all the way back in Episode 1...
remember?
[no!]
well those are the people who aren’t meant to recognize them for what they are... clues leading to the jewels you and I are meant to find at the end of the fairytale... clues that only you and I were meant to de-code...
see, I’ve already discovered that Hansel and Gretel isn’t just filled with metalepses... it’s essentially a hothouse that was built for the express purpose and pleasure of nurturing them, studying them, and even showing them off... but only to us...
now if we wanted we could find plenty of complicated, practically indigestible academic definitions and explanations of metalepsis — [please, don’t do that]
right... so let me just remind you of the definition I came up with in Episode 19... it’s pretty simple and straightforward, and I wasn’t just making it up... it was based on an unmistakable phenomenon I observed over and over in the course of reading deeper into Hansel and Gretel’s metaphoric forest... a phenomenon that the word metalepsis (even as it’s understood by academics) seems to fit best...
so here it is: metalepsis is a phrase (or even just a single word) that can be inserted into any literary work... and it’s meant to serve as a bridge or a signpost pointing to an earlier or older instance of the same or similar phrase appearing in another work or context... and that usually means a work by some long dead somebody else...
interestingly enough, it can also apply to the visual arts — in which case it amounts to an image or symbol that’s meant to refer back to the same or similar image appearing in some earlier work... or even: a literary work...
see — easy peasy...
***
if you want to find yourself utterly lost at sea in an academic explication of the concept here’s a link
***
the important thing about metalepsis
[yes, yes, this is the most important part]
uh, right... the important thing is that the earlier symbol or phrase a metalepsis refers to carries a lot of the weight of meaning meant to be expressed in the later work...
in the case of Episode 19, when Herr Holzhacker says he’s worried that wild animals would probably come and tear his children to pieces, some of the force of that worry is brought forward from the intense and vivid way it was expressed in 2 earlier works: The Bacchae of Euripides and The Heroides of Ovid...
***
there’s also ANOTHER metaleptic allusion hidden within that wild animal business... like so many literary allusions, this one seems REALLY obscure... but oddly enough I had already come across it once before in my research concerning the nature of Frau Holzhacker...
it’s actually a reference to a Medieval text known as The Alphabet of Sirach, which, itself, is a satire related to the Book of Sirach...
the reference itself is to Lilith — Adam’s first wife, who is mentioned in Isaiah 34 in connection with wild animals... In the Alphabet of Sirach she is quoted as saying “I was created only to cause sickness to infants.”
“I’d rather live with lions and dragons then a wicked wife"
Der bösen Weiber Ungestüm / Ist ärger als de. Löwen Grimm
***
except, of course, you’d normally have to be pretty well-read to know those earlier works... otherwise, you’d likely miss the reference... and that’s one serious reason that fairytales were never just meant for kids
so as I said in Episode 19, metalepsis is deliberate — in fact it can function exactly like an inside joke...
[ha, ha, right]
it doesn’t necessarily have to be comical, but in a way, it actually is, because it’s also like a wink to those in the know... and in that sense, it can function as a kind of cheeky nod and compliment to those earlier works and their authors — something you see in Hollywood movies all the time... the broadest example of that might just be some character standing in front of a mirror and saying: “You talkin’ to me?”
[ah, very good...!]
now obviously, there’s no subtlety in that reference... not for boomers like myself... and yet, subtlety is key in the art of metalepsis...
when done artfully, a metalepsis fits seamlessly into the story and is practically undetectable by anyone except those in the know... meaning: well-read cognoscenti —
[si, si, si, si, esatto, si, si]
people who are in on the joke...
and that WAS the case with all of that wild animal business... except these days, who the hell is up on Euripides and Ovid...? I mean I’d heard of those guys, and even read some of their stuff when I was in school... but I had no friggen’ clue they ever wrote anything remotely connected to that wild animal business...
and yet you and I still found out about them... we went looking for them because an artful metalepsis will always stimulate aporia in people like us... you know, the good bafflement...
in other words, we get that it’s an invitation to go on a literary Easter egg hunt... and we know: that kind of invitation isn’t just for effete cognoscenti... because for sure, that’s not who WE are...
we’re all about the Intuition, baby... and an artful metalepsis is catnip for Intuition...
see, it’s our Intuition that recognizes metalepsis as an invitation... an invitation for anyone willing to take the time to suss out it’s source... which, in our zeitgeist, most often means using the internet for something way, way, way more interesting than, uh, well... use your imagination to finish that sentence...
[I am uploading my file...]
*🎶*🎶*
PART 2 [14:30]
Teil Zwei: In which we go metal detecting in a library and find that our breadcrumb trail is leading us on a detour to Italy
[Italia]
uh, right
so let’s take another listen to the specific invitation that brought us to this episode:
"O, thou fool!" said she, "Then we must all four die of hunger, thou mayest as well plane the planks for our coffins,"
[that not good]
as I said in Episode 19, in the now, 11 years of research I’d already done on this fairy tale I was completely at a loss concerning that business of planing the planks of their coffins... even knowing in my heart that this had to be another instance of metalepsis — with a literary reference to something very, very specific — it was such a mystery to me I was more than willing to ignore it for the sake of moving along and finishing that Episode (19) of the podcast...
as I explained, part of my reason for moving along was that unlike the business of the wild animals, this line doesn’t appear in any version of the story until 1843 — which is effectively the Grimms’ 5th Edition...
so to my mind that meant it was pretty clearly NOT original to the story our author wrote... and I thought, well, that should be enough to let me off the hook... especially since I was only committed to following the clues of the original story and learning what our original author wanted us to know... except just because I couldn’t recognize any specific literary or historical allusion in it, I realized — it was only my logical mind that was ready to throw in the towel...
my intuition knew better...
I was baffled, for sure, but this was the good bafflement of aporia... I was frustrated, but I was also intrigued... and so with a helluva lot more empathy than Frau Holzhacker, my intuition kept bugging me to do something about that bafflement until I finally said — to myself:
[well alright... anything you want... anything]
so for the sake of boosting your own Intuition — and as a step-by-step demonstration of how you can do this for yourself — let me tell you how it all went down:
[I hope this is worth it]
first of all I decided that I was serious about getting to the bottom of this metalepsis... that’s key...
man, you’ve got to want the Easter Egg: you’ve gotta want the alchemical gold a metalepsis has in store for you... and as usual, it’s gold that’s hiding in plain sight...
well, okay, not in plain sight... normally — if you were lucky — that gold would be sitting on a dusty shelf in some dark corner of your university’s library stacks... And I DO mean university library...
[aw, why?]
well, you see, while the text with all the gold might be sitting in your local public library, the texts having the kind of references you need to help you find that smoking gun of a text, references that constitute that all important trail of breadcrumbs... they’re more likely to be found in your university library...
and I DO mean YOUR university... in other words, the one YOU have access to...
[what are you talking about?]
see, whether or not you’re a university student, a university graduate, or even a high school drop-out... no matter what city you live in, by law, you probably have the right to borrow or at least read books in the libraries of your state university system... at least that’s how it was for me when I lived in Chicago...
in any case, you can never depend on serendipity to deliver the gold that sits in the exact right sentence, on the exact right page of the exact right text on the exact right shelf of the exact right library or bookstore...
[why the fuck not?]
that would be like expecting to find buried treasure while you’re out planting petunias in your backyard...
[it didn’t cross my mind]
you’ve got to be like a metal detector...
[no my dear, this is a metal detector — WE are metal detectorists]
yeah, a detectorist... those guys with the metal detectors... you’ve got to decide you even want to do this... which pretty much amounts to using your intuition to detect the kinds of secrets we’re after...
and then you’ve gotta choose a promising field to start looking in...
and see, this is pretty much how you can approach every single fairy tale... and it’s how I began to approach every single line in Hansel and Gretel when I started this project over 10 very intense years ago...
[you give up now?]
okay, so we’re committed, and we’re tuned into our intuition... so now what...?
[well, I don’t know]
well, the next thing is we’ve gotta just look at the sentence for what it is... I mean: what’s it saying in the context of the story...?
[so how should I know? who even cares?]
well, I think you DO care... so, c’mon... we’ve got Frau Holzhacker being pretty much just cranky and sarcastic, right...? I mean, it sounds so normal and natural for her to say something nasty like that because it’s right in character...
and when I finally settled into that simple recognition, the first glimmer of an idea arose: what she’s saying amounts to a very logical preparation for death...
[oh no]
fact is, her suggestion is every bit as logical and practical as her idea about getting rid of the kids — which, as I’ve said, was a practical and logical way of dealing with the famine... the only difference being: this time, her suggestion isn’t evil, and it’s not dastardly... instead, it’s almost generous...
[oh absolutely]
you know, kinda like pre-paying for your own funeral...
[that’s nice]
so, if nothing else, at least we’ve got a direction to start looking in...
as a next step I started searching on-line for information about medieval funerals and coffins — although all I could do was cross my fingers and hope that some interesting, obvious connection would pop up...
and whaddya know... there WAS something that turned out to be pretty cool and totally unexpected: although it’s only indirectly relevant:
the Ars moriendi...
[I’m sorry, what?]
which literally means the art of dying... it also seems to match our understanding of Frau Holzhacker’s aim of preparing for death...
turns out that in the Middle Ages, the art of the good death was not only a serious topic... it was also a fairly popular one, too...
now I’m not gonna go into too much detail here, but that’s only because I didn’t find any dead-on, smoking guns among the various medieval texts I found... and believe me, there’s a helluva lot of material out there on the medieval concept of a good death (in both primary and secondary sources)
fact is, there’s so much of it that reading through it all is well-nigh impossible...
[uh, excuse you...]
(consider the fact that between 1575 and 1800, Jesuits alone produced more than 200 works dealing with the art of dying)
that said, reading enough of the material to get a feel for whether or not you’re on the right track — well that’s non-negotiable... even though it takes an awful lot of time and effort...
so in that sea of information, there are some very well known and important texts giving very sober advice regarding the Ars moriendi... among the most famous is one written by Martin Luther, one written by his mentor, Johann von Staupitz, one written by the famous Erasmus of Rotterdam, and one written by Jean Gerson (the guy who was almost single-handedly responsible for the execution of Jan Hus — our cooked goose guy from episode 17)...
remember him...?
[no!]
uh, right...
well each one of those texts needed to be found and at least skimmed...
it turns out there’s also one very old, illustrated text which is pretty much considered the granddaddy of them all and is itself known as the Ars moriendi...
apparently it was one of the very first books ever printed in movable type and was re-published throughout the Middle Ages and beyond...
as an aside, it turns out that I had already been exposed to the idea of the Ars Moriendi sometime during my previous research...
[is that so?]
yeah, the text is mentioned in an extraordinary — if not fairly morbid — book I had once come across called:
The Art of Executing Well — Rituals of Execution in Renaissance Italy — Edited by Nicholas Terpstra
[yikes!]
the book tells us that various confraternities making use of this good death literature had existed all across Italy... they were kinda like volunteer fire departments... in other words, they were all comprised of people who volunteered to comfort and calm condemned prisoners throughout the night before execution and then accompany them to the uh, party, on their, uh big day.
Of course, one reason these groups existed was to help save the soul of the condemned prisoner... but the other reason? well that was to help guarantee a peaceful public execution...
you know, a nice, calm and pleasant hanging or beheading or hammer to the back of the head... something without the kind of ugly and messy histrionics that
[I don’t wanna!]
on the one hand would, no doubt, entertain certain folks, and on the other hand would probably lead to an embarrassingly botched job...
[I don’t fucken’ want that]
Fun fact: Michelangelo was a volunteer in the Roman confraternity... and Lorenzo de’ Medici, Signor Renaissance himself, was a member of the conforteria in Florence, a group commonly known as I Neri: The Blacks... The idea of which brings to mind that scene in Room With a View when guys with black hoods show up to carry off the guy who was stabbed in Piazza Della Signoria...
I had also come across a book that was billed as the diary of Rome’s most famous executioner: a guy known as Mastro Titta...
Memorie di un Carnefice Scritte da lui stesso
[si, si, si... esatto]
hey, he’s even got his own wiki page... I’ll leave a link: Giovanni Battista Bugatti
[ahem]
getting back to business here, none of the good death texts I found mentioned anything about coffins...
[oh no!]
their main — and pretty much only — point of emphasis had to do with spirituality... making sure you were on the right side of christian do’s and don’ts in the face of all the temptations that were bound to show up when your ticket was about to be punched...
for what it’s worth, Frau Holzhacker’s version of a good death ignores the spiritual business entirely and speaks only to the practical, logical and physical aspects...
so, dead end or not, it was still helpful as a hefty sprinkling of breadcrumbs, because it brought me right the brink of the next step...
[watch out for that first step, it’s a doozie]
*🎶*🎶*
PART 3 [29:29]
Teil Drei: In which we take a little cruise on a very famous ship, tune into a medieval comedy central, and find a couple of grown men calling each other names
I can’t say exactly how this next idea arose, except to say that in hindsight, it’s ridiculously obvious...
[how?]
well, once I realized that the Ars moriendi wasn’t just one text, but a body of literature, it reminded me that there was another whole body of Medieval literature I already knew about
[oh really?]
yeah, the so-called Narrenliteratur... or Fools literature — which is essentially ALL satire... it was referenced, of course, doh, by Frau Holzhacker calling her husband a fool...
based on some of my earlier Hansel and Gretel research, I knew about das Narrenschiff...
[ja, ja, it’s okay]
the famous Ship of Fools, a satire written by Sebastian Brant and published in 1494... I also knew about the book by Erasmus known as: In Praise of Folly...
so what I still don’t know is WHY it hadn’t occurred to me before... all I knew was that it finally did... and as far as I can tell, that’s all that counts...
[oops, sorry, you’re wrong]
so I began, as usual, with wiki articles... which always give me plenty of references to start searching out... which, really, is the main value of wikipedia...
[what?]
hey, if all you’re looking for is a quick introduction to something, wikipedia is great, but it’s no substitute for checking out the sources it can point you towards... and once again, investigating at least some of those sources is non-negotiable...
[why]
not because you can’t trust wikipedia... it’s because a wiki article will rarely answer the specific question you’re asking or investigating — which, in this case, still had to do with some medieval somebody planing boards for their own coffin...
and sure, sometimes wikipedia will take you by the hand and lead you right to your seat in the right section of the right ballpark...
🎶 [ballpark organ] 🎶
but not in this case...
[damn!]
funny enough though, wikipedia will sometimes display a glaring lack of cultural awareness... and what I mean specifically, is that the English language wiki article on fool’s literature was a nearly empty cupboard
then again, the German version wasn’t THAT much more helpful, although it DID have a little bit more useful information...
[oh, very nice, much better]
anyway, I had no choice but to skim through the Ship of Fools and In Praise of Folly... which I gotta say, wasn’t such a bad thing because, after all, they’re both comical satires... in the end though, all of that work was notable for the simple fact that it eliminated both texts from our Easter Egg hunt...
[moans of disappointment]
***
The ship of fools is an allegory, originating from Book VI of Plato's Republic, about a ship with a dysfunctional crew. Plato. "Book 6, 488b-489a".
***
picking up one of the most obvious breadcrumbs, the wiki article on Sebastian Brandt — the author of Ship of Fools — presented a common, but very different kind of problem...
[what seems to be the problem?]
it gave me over 11 different names to check up on...
[oh boy...]
we had: Peter Schott, Johann Bergmann von Olpe, Emperor Maximilian, Johann Geiler von Kaysersberg, Thomas Murner, Konrad Peutinger, Willibald Pirckheimer, Johannes Reuchlin, Beatus Rhenanus, Jakob Wimpfeling and Ulrich Zasius.
[oh brother]
and since any one of those names could be important, they all needed to be investigated...
[oh no!]
and that’s a real problem because besides being time consuming, having too many potential avenues of research like this are only too likely to become a wild goose chase...
[oh no!]
fortunately, 2 names in particular seemed like a good bet to invest my time and attention in, because they had also turned up in the german wiki article on fools literature...
[perfect!]
The first name was: Johann Geiler von Kaysersberg (1445 – 1510)...
[who’s that?]
a celebrity preacher known for his amazingly popular sermons — Johann was a kind of Billy Graham of Germany in his time...
one of his most famous sermons (actually a series of sermons) had to do with Sebastian Brandt’s Ship of Fools, and then another one had to do with the Ars moriendi — preparation for a good death:
so, many hours later, having dutifully gone down THAT double-barreled rabbit hole, I found both texts to be dead ends...
[oh crap!]
the second name I investigated was Thomas Murner... and this is where the search started to heat up...
[really?]
Murner wrote a number of Fool satires, and was well known as an apologist for Catholicism against the reforms of Luther... his most famous text was:
Von dem großen Lutherischen Narren, “On the Great Lutheran Fool”
[your german pronunciation must be much better]
it personified Luther’s reforms as a sick, ridiculous fool who is cured by the ministrations of Murner himself...
finding this text was a real treat... it not only had interesting woodcut illustrations, it was, after all, a satire, and it was funny as hell... it was also a major pain for someone like myself — whose German is piss poor at best...
[roger that]
of course I didn’t read the whole thing, I just homed in on the death scene, hoping to find a solid connection to “planing the planks of their coffins...”
but no such luck...
[oh well]
then, after spending considerable time reading and understanding what I could, I found this text, which gives a good, but abbreviated translation of portions of Murner’s text...
Scheming papists and Lutheran fools: five Reformation satires - selected and translated by Erika Rummel 1993 Fordham University Press
[oh!]
and you can borrow it from archive.org - I’ll leave a link in the transcripts on the webpage...
I especially liked this book because it furnished several helpful references in the notes to that translation of Murner...
they led me to some other texts by Murner, which turned out to be pretty funny as well... they just didn’t get me any closer to the goal...
Die Narrenbeschwerung Ein ... lustigs Büchlin
[okay, now what?]
turns out though, Murner was no dead end...
[ooh]
for some reason, my intuition insisted that Murner was somehow still involved... and that insistence led me to learn more about the beef between Thomas Murner and Luther... which in turn led me to learn about another beef that Luther had with a certain Hieronymus Emser...
[oh boy]
now this is where things start getting complex and a bit more difficult to share,
[oh boy]
because while I copied down and visited urls for an awful lot of texts concerning Luther and Murner, re-visiting them to piece together the precise sequence of those research details in a rigorous academic manner just ain’t gonna happen...
[why the fuck not?]
well, it’s not exactly impossible... it’s just not the best use of our time...
***
and just so you know keeping track of each step you take on a research project like this is well-nigh impossible... that is to say keeping a meticulous record...
intuition works like a bee gathering information by going from flower to flower to flower without stopping to note down the route... it may be that there is some internet algorithm keeping an eye on where you’re going, but even a careful check of your own browser’s history will rarely give you back each of your steps in the order in which you took them... which is why a research diary is a terrific idea... at least keeping track of the big picture is possible... but you DO have to take the time to do it at the end of each day’s work... unfortunately, I never did... don’t be like me... what I DID manage to do, however, is to take notes along the way and copy down the URL of any material I found to be helpful — either immediately or eventually... and even THAT can prove to be a major pain to accomplish...
okay, library science rant over...
***
as I skimmed through those various texts, I learned one particular fact, which was that Luther enjoyed calling Murner, Murnarr...
Luther und Emser: Ihre Streitschriften aus dem Jahre 1521 (pp. 118 - 126)
[huh?]
it turns out that in Luther’s time, the word Murner was slang for a tomcat... on top of that, changing the ending of his name to Narr, which means Fool, is pretty self explanatory...
[heh, interesting]
what I personally found funny was that as you read and skim through page after page after page of that stuff, it quickly becomes evident that Luther was long-winded as hell, AND kinda nasty... the main impression I got was that the guy wasn’t just sarcastic, he was kinda whiney... I mean, Luther really like to go on and on complaining about people...
[oh my]
but that’s all beside the point... because now the research wasn’t just heating up, it was getting closer and closer to the boiling point...
[cauldron bubbling]
[a witch cackling]
*🎶*🎶*
PART 4 [40:45]
Teil Vier: In which we go on a wild goose chase across Germany and end up in just the right corner of just the right library, where we find just the right sentence on just the right page in just the right book on just the right shelf... and holy kamoly... we find honest-to-god REAL FAIRYTALE GOLD!
[Pirate says, that’s lovely, that is]
digging deeper into Thomas Murner it turns out he appears in a number of satires that aren’t just Narrenliterature / Fools literature... he was constantly referred to in another important literary genre known as Reformationsdialoge / Reformation dialogues...
[what is that?]
this was an extensive body of popular works promoting Luther’s reforms... they came mostly in cheap pamphlet form, were written as dialogues expounding theological arguments in favor of those reforms, and they pretty consistently made fun of Luther’s enemies and opponents... meaning, of course, all sorts of generically greedy, lazy and corrupt priests and bishops...
interestingly, the collective idea of Reformation Literature doesn’t pop up in the English wiki... it only shows up in the German wiki:
[yes, I’m well aware of that]
so it was from this link that I discovered the most famous of these dialogues, known as: the Karsthans:
It has a famous illustration of 4 people on the cover: One of them being Luther, two of them being Karsthans or Hans the farmer and his son...
the 4th guy...? well, well? whaddya know... it’s Thomas Murner... and he’s shown as a guy having the head of a cat...
in the beginning of the dialogue — which is something of a theological discussion, Murner can’t argue or speak, he can only meow...
[oh, and I suppose you think that’s funny, huh?]
so, Karsthans didn’t offer much in the way of direct information, but it DID have me thinking:
was Frau Holzhacker supposed to represent Thomas Murner...? after all, it was Murner who had called Luther — or at least Lutheranism — foolish... and for sure, we’re going to see how Hansel and Gretel slowly shows itself to be something of a satire in its own right... one with a pro-Lutheran axe to grind...
[crowd ooohs]
***
if you want to read more about this you can borrow Steven Ozment’s book:
The Reformation in the cities : the appeal of Protestantism to sixteenth-century Germany and Switzerland by Ozment, Steven E
***
so with this pro-Lutheran theme in mind, I was able to find some very important breadcrumbs in a text on Google books called:
Luther as Heretic: Ten Catholic Responses to Martin Luther, 1518-1541 edited by David Bagchi
[sounds interesting]
none of the chapter headings refer to Thomas Murner — and a search of the contents shows that Murner is hardly mentioned at all... instead, the chapter headings DO indicate 2 other names of interest: Hieronymus Emser and Johannes Eck...
[what the hell?]
Emser, who I already mentioned as having a beef with Luther, well, he’s interesting because the written exchange between him and Luther offers another lengthy — and comical — example of Luther’s cranky, sarcastic nature... the particulars of their beef has mostly to do with Luther’s sympathetic interest in the ideas of Jan Hus... and while it could add plenty of depth and background to our understanding of Jan Hus and his place in between the lines of Hansel and Gretel, it doesn’t add anything of substance to our current quest: which is simply to find out what that vaguely gratuitous coffin carpentry remark is doing in the fairytale...
so, forget Emser...
[whatever]
moving on to that second name: Johannes Eck, well, this guy pops up because he not only stuck up for Emser in his beef with Luther, he had his own beef with Luther... that meant I had to chase him down, if only to rule him out as the subject of another funny, but time and attention sapping wild goose chase...
[lotsa geese]
Eck’s response on behalf of Hieronymus Emser begins on p. 47 of Bagchi's text
of course, most of what your Intuition finds interesting, your logical mind is just naturally gonna label a wild goose chase... and that’s because your Intuition isn’t on the hunt for facts... it’s looking out for an experience of something you might call heroic... in other words, if you’ll let it, it will lead you down the path of Option B: The Hero's Journey
[the sound of Option B beckoning]
along the way it throws your logical mind a few breadcrumbs to follow... in other words, a few facts...
so here was the first fact:
Luther and Eck met in an adversarial debate in Leipzig in 1519... and you can read about it in a nice, succinct wiki article:
(The Leipzig Disputation took place in the three weeks between June 27 and July 15, 1519)
of course, then, you can follow as many or as few hyperlinks as you’d like... it’s worthwhile to check out some of them in order to get a taste of just how spicy this debate was, and how the flavor of it penetrates in between the lines of our fairy tale...
you can also click on the German wiki link and find yourself at the entrance to a rabbit hole of immense depth and breadth...
for what it’s worth, the wiki page for Eck himself will provide your intuition with a few chuckles, although by itself, it’s not all that funny OR all that helpful...
still, I kept looking into Eck, although I did so only because David Bagchi’s writing about him kept me both amused and intrigued... in fact, without being able to read a decent amount of that chapter in google books, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have gone much further looking into Eck’s corner...
so I turned to Archive.org and found this page in response to my simple, straightforward search: Johann Eck...
(if you'll notice, the German wiki page is under Johannes Eck, while the English page is under Johann... and the Archive.org page under Johannes Eck is pretty much a dead end!)
and on this page, there’s a plethora of german texts with only a couple in English... so I clicked on the English texts... and as an afterthought I figured I’d add one text that had a latin name...
you know... what the hell...?
almost predictably, those texts in English gave me nothing...
but then a really funny thing happened...
[what happened?]
I opened the book with the Latin name...
okay... I opened the pdf... the title was Eccius dedolatus...
[this is gonna suck]
while I took a few years of Latin in high school, that name meant nothing to me... and since this book had to be borrowed before I could read more than a preview, all that I learned from the preview was that it’s billed as a Reformation Satire...
🎶 [ballpark organ] 🎶
okay, so at least I was back in the same ballpark...
now before you borrow this book on Archive.org, you get to read the first page, which is all in English... and from the footnote on that page, you can understand that the text might be full of metalepses... i.e. lines taken from or referring to older, classical sources...
so I borrowed it... and then I started reading — not the satire, but the translator’s very brief preface... and then I kept on going to read his lengthier introduction...
and once again — I can’t stress this enough — you’ve gotta put in the time it takes to at least skim these things... often, though, it’s been my experience that translator’s are just too fucken’ long-winded! they and so many editors who present somebody else’s work often go on and on and on before they’ll let you get to the work itself... and let me tell you, it’s like listening to some boring dick at a party, who just can’t stop talking about himself...
[blah, blah, blah...]
these editors and translators can bore the crap out of you if you let them give you their full 2¢ worth of twaddle about the work and what THEY think about it...
having an awful lot of Virgo in my chart, I do like to dot all the i’s and cross all the t’s... although it’s mostly because I don’t want to miss anything — and while I used to trust these guys to steer me in the right direction, I’ve been disappointed and bored to tears far too many times... so over the years, my patience with introductions has worn pretty thin...
[you sure do have your problems]
every once in awhile, though, an editor or a translator will wow me! and I’ve gotta hand it to Professor Thomas W. Best... because he did...
(Professor Emeritus — Dept. of Germanic Studies & Literature — University of Virginia)
In his clear and well-crafted introduction he gives us the origin of the story... which is to say the historic motivations behind its anonymous author having written the silly thing in the first place... and that turns out to be the Leipzig Debate between Eck and Luther that we had already come across...
believe me, Professor Best is neither long-winded nor boring... he provides fascinating contextual facts that other translators could easily have turned into a real snoozefest...
he begins his intro on page 13 and he pretty much had me at hello when he called Eccius dedolatus the greatest of Reformation satires, and one of the best satires in all German literature...
having already read some pretty funny stuff during the course of this research, I was willing to believe Professor Best had translated something really entertaining for all of us, regardless of whether or not it was what I was looking for...
it turns out that the satire is pro-Luther, and amounts to a kind of reversal or antithesis of the famous satire that Thomas Murner had written — the one in which he skewers Lutheranism...
by the time we get to p. 19, Prof. Best summarizes the plot: which begins with Johannes Eck being violently ill and in desperate need of a surgeon... When the surgeon arrives, he’s worried that the patient might not survive the cure, so he calls for a deathbed confessor... in other words, he gets him ready for a good death... of course, Eck reveals himself to be a real fool, if not a complete asshole...
and then: kaboom...
[KABOOM]
[nuclear bomb blast]
all of a sudden, at the bottom of p. 19, the heavens open,
[angelic sublime choir]
the planets align
[heavenly choir]
and Professor Best shows me the money...
[pinball winner sounds]
[cha-ching!]
he says:
...the treatment of (Eck’s) condition begins. He is beaten first, to remove his rough edges (hence the title Eccius dedolatus — planed-down Eck). After being made smooth, he is...
[tada!]
🎶 [Verdi's Aida - Gloria al Egitto] 🎶
I didn’t need to go any further on to p. 20, but I did... and just so you know, the story is that after Herr Eck is beaten in order to be made smooth, he’s
shaved, put to sleep and purged, cut open for the removal of his cancerous character faults, and emasculated.
[uh oh!]
on page 64, the Surgeon says the fateful words:
...hew him with your clubs young men. Since he’s edgy all over and uneven, he needs to be planed down first.
and then on page 65, after Eck has been tuned up, as they say, the Surgeon says:
But now all of you are tired and dripping with sweat. Stop. He seems hewn down enough. Arise, therefore, and walk. Behold! How smooth and even he looks all over!
[holy shit...!]
🎶 [Aida - Gloria al Egitto]🎶
so what does this mean for our interpretation of Hansel and Gretel...?
[giggle i don’t know]
***
Funny enough, I would think that one source for this story — whether deliberate or not — can be found in the Alphabet of Sirach... specifically, in the 12th Aramaic Proverb listed within it (which is, itself based on Proverbs 22:15:
A nod to the wise is sufficient; the fool requires a blow.
***
well, for one thing, it reinforces our hypothesis that the fairytale is itself, a satire — one that has a pro-Lutheran or anti-Vatican axe to grind...
and as far as Frau Holzhacker is concerned... she may have called her husband a fool, but that was pretty much the pot calling the kettle black, because the impression we get is that she is now linked to both Thomas Murner AND Johannes Eck!
what that makes her husband is pretty much what we’ve already understood: a guy with no backbone, and pretty clearly, a fool himself...
[got THAT right]
[applause]
well, there it is... I consider this to be a philologic coup of immense proportion... even so, that’s not the end of the story... it IS the end of this episode, but there’s more to this than meets the eye...
we’re left with an intuitively fascinating question: why the hell did the Grimm’s add this line to Hansel and Gretel in the first place...?
the implication that they understood the satiric nature of the original fairytale itself is amazing enough... but their specific reasons for adding this metalepsis are even more amazing... and that, my dear friends, listeners and supporters is going to be the subject of a genuine bonus episode...
in episode 21 of the Hansel and Gretel Code, we’re going to be moving along to the next line of the fairy tale... and in it we learn that little pitchers have big ears... we’re also going to run into the fact of the Grimms pulling a switcheroo and changing Frau Holzhacker from a mother into a step-mother...
so, once again:
[visit us on the web @ wwwwwww dot]
betweenthelines.xyz
you’ll find transcripts for each episode with plenty of links and all the appropriate voice and music credits... and if the 3 of you guys out there would rather make sure your friends never find out that you’re listening to this podcast... would you please, please, puhleeze throw a few anonymous stars my way to rate the podcast AND write a word or two of praise (or condemnation) on whatever podcast app you’re using...
[absolutely not!]
remember you can also contact me directly through the website just to say hi... and maybe you’d like to throw me your 2¢ and let me know what YOU think the Hansel and Gretel bread represents...
[pizza!]
[I’m almost sorry that it’s over]
alrighty then:
ciao a tutti...
[ciao, ciao]
got a question, or just want to say hi...?
*Chapter Titles read by Anna Jacobsen*
*Librivox recording of Hansel and Gretel read by Bob Neufeld*
*🎶*🎶* Bleeping Demo by Kevin MacLeod of filmmusic.io
🎶 Anachronist 🎶 by Kevin MacLeod and licensed under filmmusic.io/standard-license
🎶 Marcia Trionfale: Gloria all'egitto (Aida: Act 2 Scene 2) 🎶 — Giuseppe Verdi — courtesy of European Archive and musopen.org
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@00:04 "are you talkin' to me?" - 45
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sound of wild animals @05:18
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[si, si, si...! / esatto!] @12:20
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[si, si, si...! / esatto!] @28:11
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PART 3 / Teil Drei @29:29
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PART 4 / Teil Vier @40:42
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***
Option B @46:38
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got a question, or just want to say hi...?
Episode 019 - Steak Tartare & Blood Sausage / Episode 21 - I got a funny feeling about this