In Episode 21 we find out that the left hand knows exactly what the right hand is up to
Part 1 [07:20] - In which we hear about the Yin and Yang of Hansel and Gretel, and spend a few sleepless nights trying to figure out what grace has to do with insomnia
Part 2 [20:23] - In which we find out that the Grimms put out a contract on the first Frau Holzhacker
Part 3 [32:32] - In which we turn on the waterworks and raise a few feminist hackles
Part 4 [39:54] - In which we partner up and make a very bold prediction
[hello... anybody here...?]
[what is the location?]
[welcome aboard the SW train service to London-Waterloo]
[what am I doing here? what am I doing here?]
[the following presentation is intended ONLY for immature audiences]
[it shouldn’t really be allowed]
😇 🎶 heavenly choir 🎶 😇
["And God said 'Let there be F-Bombs' — And they were good — And they multiplied — Right here, in this podcast"]
[not again!]
🧨 🧨 🧨 [nuclear blast] 💥︎ 💥︎ 💥︎
🎶 dramatic organ music 🎶
🎶 deep church bell 🎶
bless me Fader, for I have sinned, it’s been about a month since my last episode...
[that’s bad]
[that’s the only fault I would have — that it isn’t often enough]
🎶 Anachronist 🎶
Heidi Ho there all you fairytale lovers...
[oh, you back again?]
Yup... this here is Episode 21
In our last Episode
we went on a hugely successful Easter Egg hunt... and we discovered a literary gem that everybody else seems to have overlooked for at least 100 years...
it’s something that’s been sitting right there, hiding in plain sight, ever since the Grimms stuck it in their 1843 version of Hansel and Gretel. And what I mean, is their cheeky little metalepsis concerning coffin carpentry... in other words, their tongue-in-cheek allusion to a very specific example of the so-called Narrenliterature and Reformationsdialoge of the 16th Century...
[what’s that you say?]
well, that just means Fools literature — very comical satires making fun of certain people, ideas and behaviors foolish along with Reformation Dialogues: vaguely comical, more overtly religious arguments in favor of Luther’s reforms... together, they were 2 very popular forms of literature that, to this day, still have the power to make people laugh...
[ha, ha right]
hell, they sure made me laugh...
if you go back and listen to Episode 20 you can hear all about what we found and exactly how we found it...
for my money, this has serious implications for Grimms scholarship going forward... actually, what we’re doing here with the story of Hansel and Gretel is the very sort of research advocated by Heinz Rölleke, the foremost Grimms Scholar in Germany in a paper presented in Göttingen in 1985
[who cares?]
well, it’s my contention that everything we’re doing here with Hansel and Gretel was already done by a certain band of literary cognoscenti back in the 19th century...
[ooh]
don’t get me wrong though... it’s not as if they left behind a written record of all this that I somehow stumbled across...
no, no, no... I’m certain that what we’re doing here is the same kind of work that’s been done before... in fact, for centuries there had been a keen interest in doing exactly what we’re doing with Hansel and Gretel... but that interest seems to have been lost to the same uh, restructuring of Western Culture that produced the First World War...
[are you kidding me?]
hey, I kid you not...
anyway, I’m sharing all this with you here and now — first and foremost — because of my interest in this kind of work... I also believe that for the sake of the Culture this stuff is worth knowing about, worth caring about, and well worth doing...
[whatever]
well, today, we’re moving along to the next line of the fairytale... so let’s take a listen as Jürgen Lexow, our German storyteller extraordinaire goes back over the story so far and then carries us along into the subject of today’s episode...
Es war einmal ein armer Holzhacker, der wohnte vor einem großen Wald. Es ging ihm gar jämmerlich, daß er kaum seine Frau, und seine zwei Kinder ernähren konnte. Einsmals hatte er auch kein Brod mehr und war in großer Angst, da sprach seine Frau Abends in Bett zu ihm: nimm die beiden Kinder morgen früh und führ sie in den großen Wald, gib ihnen das noch übrige Brod, und mach' ihnen ein groß Feuer an und danach geh weg und laß sie allein. Der Mann wollte lange nicht, aber die Frau ließ ihm keine Ruh, bis er endlich einwilligte. Aber die Kinder hatten alles gehört, was die Mutter gesagt hatte [...]
Once upon a time there was a poor woodcutter who lived before a great forest. He had it so rough he could scarcely feed his wife and his two children. Once, there wasn’t even any more bread, and he was terrified, [awww] so one night in bed his wife said to him: 'Early tomorrow take both children into the woods, give them what's left of the bread, make them a big fire, and then go off and leave them alone.' For a long time, the man refused, but the woman gave him no peace until he finally said: ['well, alright, anything you want. Anything.'] [(couple of people booing)] But the children heard everything the mother said [...]
[uh oh]
*🎶*🎶*
PART 1 [07:20]
Teil eins:
In which we hear about the Yin and Yang of Hansel and Gretel, and spend a few sleepless nights trying to figure out what grace has to do with insomnia
[does your typical night suffer from horribly boring night syndrome? We got a solution for you! This Tuesday, October 20th, wait, 17th...]
well, there it is: instead of being all tucked in their beds and sound asleep the children heard everything the mother said...
that’s a pretty simple revelation — right? and while it means the plot is about to thicken, we could easily say that little pitchers have big ears and just leave it at that.
***
the fact is: the saying was first recorded by Richard Heywood in his book on Proverbs in the English Language from 1546
he mentions in a footnote: Richard III act 2 scene 4 / (Richard III was written around 1593±
Queen Elizabeth: A parlous boy : go to, you are too shrewd.
Archbishop: Good madam, be not angry with the child.
Queen Elizabeth: Pitchers have ears.
***
[I think that we should do that]
Except, the old saying, just like the phrase in this sentence, doesn’t just mean that children hear what adults say — it implies the well-known fact that children often understand exactly what adults mean, even when those adults use code words to try and hide that meaning from them.
and uh, good luck with THAT...
For goodness sakes... it’s how I learned a few Italian phrases as a kid... whenever my grandmother said something to my mother that she didn’t want us kids to understand, she said it in Italian... so given the context and the inflection, I always knew what she meant...
[spaghetti]
Still, these are not literal children we’re talking about... hell, they’re not even literal people.
[ooh!]
Calling them fictional already means that they’re metaphoric (and not simply imaginary or insubstantial), but let's not belabor the point.
These children hear and understand everything—and that HAS to be the case if we consider them as metaphors representing 2 separate Functions of Consciousness within the same 4-Square Consciousness represented by our fairytale family.
The psychological truth being that one aspect of our consciousness cannot act without other aspects being in the loop — even if they’re not the ones in charge of the personality and right up front in our conscious mind.
As Jung might say, the left hand DOES know exactly what the right hand is doing, especially when those aspects of personality we normally expect to be fast asleep are wide awake and active within the unconscious...
remember we’re still committed to figuring out which of the four Functions of Consciousness each member of the Holzhacker family represents...
[no sir!]
well, yeah, we are... and this sentence gives us our very first clue regarding the metaphoric identity of the children...
now sure, we’ve heard about the kids before and understood them to be scapegoats... but this is the first time we learn something specific about them through their own actions... of course we don’t hear about them individually — not just yet — and so this step reinforces the fact that, in terms of Typology, the Functions work in pairs...
2 functions work together as a Dominant pair or coupling within the Psyche, while the other 2 functions constitute a so-called Inferior coupling...
[no fair, no fair!]
hey, relax... neither coupling or pair is intrinsically superior in terms of quality — it’s just that one pair is normally at work in Consciousness, while the other pair is busy doing god-knows-what in the Unconscious...
[I would like a dozen more chimpanzees to be delivered by tomorrow. Thank you.]
and in addition to this sort of coupling, the 4 Functions also group up as 2 pairs of opposites that are like the 2 opposite sides of the same coin...
considering everything we’ve learned about Dionysus and his connection to Hansel in Episode 19, we might be tempted to call these Holzhacker opposites a Dionysian / Apollonian duality, but that’s premature and even way too specific...
At this point, it’s much better to simply use the more abstract, Taoist terminology of Yin and Yang...
[why, why, why, why?]
the terms Yin and Yang are thoroughly archetypal and indicate the absolutely generic, non-specific concept of opposites... and while Yin and Yang have no intrinsic or specific attributes, all sorts of specific attributes can be assigned to them as they’re named and discovered.
for example: we normally think of Yin as darkness and Yang as light, and yet, that can be totally reversed... see, light and dark will always remain opposites, but neither is intrinsically Yin or Yang...
***
do you see what I’m getting at...? hey, if you don’t that’s okay... it’s still a common misconception among acupuncture students that Yin and Yang have some sort of intrinsic, natural value... hell, they’re even thought of as specific physiologic substances...
the fact is that various physiologic substances, like estrogen and testosterone, and various functions, like breathing in and breathing out, can properly be called either Yin or Yang, but that’s always and only because they’re pairs of opposites...
***
In any case, the two children, the little brother and the little sister — whom the Grimms baptized as Hansel and Gretel — well, they’re certainly a pairing or combination of 2 Functions of Consciousness, but they’re not necessarily a Yin / Yang combination of Opposites...
[you are hormonally confused]
yeah, sure... in the context of gender they are... although, these days, I guess you’d have to ask them for their pronouns to be sure...
[dad joke groans]
but now speaking in terms of Typology, the 2 Yin / Yang pairs of opposites are Thinking : Feeling (the so-called faculties of Judgment) while the other pair are Sensation : Intuition (the so-called faculties of Perception)
All that we know so far is that Frau Holzhacker AIN’T the Feeling Function... and while she’s paired with her husband, we still don’t know which Function he or anybody else represents...
as I’ve said, in order to do that, we’ve got to observe them in action... and THIS is the first moment in which see (or hear about) the kids in action...
so, yeah, we’ve already linked Hansel with Dionysus, and we’ve linked the Still, Small Voice to Dionysus... and guess what...
[what?]
the still, small voice always knows what Conscience and the conscious ego is up to... and since the children have now heard their parents’ scheme — which pretty much amounts to the voice of Conscience — does that make the pair of them the still, small voice...?
[I don’t know]
well, I don’t know either... these are questions we just can’t answer right now... so let’s put them on the back burner while we consider another tiny clue the Grimms added to the story... it may or may not mean anything terribly important, but from their first 1812 edition on, the Grimms added the fact that the children couldn’t sleep because they were hungry...
[I want my pizza right now, I am very hungry]
[ahem]
Die zwei Kinder waren auch noch wach von Hunger, und hatten alles gehört, was die Mutter zum Vater gesagt hatte.
The two children were still awake from hunger, and heard everything the mother said to the father...
for what it’s worth, the Grimms also emphasize the mother as the villain by making no mention of what the father said — which pretty much seals the deal on the idea that they’re listening to the Voice of Conscience... but let’s not quibble... the manuscript does the same thing...
the real addition the Grimms make is this business of hunger, and it’s function as a logical reason for the kids to be awake...
[yeah, so what?]
now, it’s important to remember that the Holzhacker hunger is still metaphor — a metaphor we can all relate to, because the very thing that tends to keep every one of us awake at night is an acute hunger for whatever it is that our Hansel and Gretel bread symbolizes...
[we’ll eat frozen pizzas all day — all day, every day ]
hey, we’ve ALL had our share of sleepless nights — tossing and turning in angst over all sorts of post-modern worries and concerns... you know: financial problems, family problems, work problems... you name it...
[you sure do have your problems]
uh, yeah... then throw in Conscience giving us a hard time over all of our sins of omission or commission... it makes no difference... they might all seem like demons and tortures specially designed to fit our own unique situation... and yet, the universal popularity of this fairytale tells us we’re all suffering from the exact same archetypal hunger that the Holzhackers are suffering from:
[what’s that?] an apparent lack of divine grace — which, in this day and age, might as well be a fairytale itself...
[you realize some people aren’t going to be happy with this?]
yeah, well, it’s imperative that we figure out exactly what grace is before things get too far out of hand... and what I mean is we need to find the real McCoy grace that ain’t no religious abstraction...
[damn, that’s good shit!]
all I can tell you right now is that Hansel and Gretel — the fairytale — has made it pretty clear to me exactly what grace is...
[why won’t you share?]
well, I swear to god — the episode with the recipe for real, honest-to-goodness soul-food is coming... in the meantime, just let me remind you that I could use the grace of your support — financial and otherwise...
as said in Episode 19, I’ve signed up with that buy me a coffee outfit — you know ko-fi.com ... remember?
[no!]
well, there’s a link in the show notes and on the webpage for this episode that I would love for you guys to click on...
and, whaddya know... my friend and fellow podcaster, Danny van Leeuwen, of HealthHats the podcast, was the first listener to click that link and throw some er, bread, my way... thanks for that Danny...
and whether or not YOU guys decide to click on that link and cast your um, bread upon these here waters, I’d still encourage you to check out the website, if only for the sake of supporting your own Intuition... so:
[visit us on the web...]
at betweenthelines.xyz
[absolutely not!]
alrighty then...
*🎶*🎶*
PART 2 [20:23]
Teil zwei:
In which we find out that the Grimms put out a contract on the first Frau Holzhacker. Fuggedaboudit!
[I’m a simple man, and I don’t get upset too easy. But when I do, I like to take a person’s life.]
[Capisce?]
right now, we’ve gotta address THE most curious thing the Grimms decided to do with Hansel and Gretel... so let’s listen to the Grimms’ revision of the story as they suddenly choose to play the step-mother card:
🎶 inquisition splash! 🎶
Die zwei Kinder hatten vor Hunger auch nicht einschlafen können und hatten gehört was die Stiefmutter zum Vater gesagt hatte.
The two children had also not been able to sleep for hunger, and had heard what their step-mother had said to their father.
[what is wrong with this picture?]
pretty curious, huh?
[no, it’s not]
yeah, well, it might seem logical... except it’s kinda gratuitous, since it’s not a crucial addition to the plot...
for the sake of comparison, we know that many Hansel and Gretel versions by various authors land on different sides of the issue... we learned in Episode 10 that nearly every single one of those versions were re-tellings that came after the Grimms 1812 first edition...
we also learned that there were only 4 European versions that came before 1812 — remember?
[no!]
well, let’s take another look at the 4 versions that preceded the Grimms’ and see if they played the step-mother card or not...
[alright, if you insist]
***
Lal Badshah uses a step-mother and her hatred of the 2 daughters as motivation see: Indian Nights’ Entertainment* (p. 330)
As translations from the Panjabi of the Upper Indus, they are as literal as idiom and freedom of expression would permit. Their collection and compilation were the work of years, bringing solace in trouble and respite from the weariness of the long glowing days of summer in that hottest of all hot places, the Peshawur Valley. As folk-tales they claim of course the highest possible antiquity, being older than the Jatakas, older than the Mahabharata, older than history itself. From age to age, and from generation to generation, they have been faithfully handed down by people rude and unlearned, who have preserved them through all the vicissitudes of devastating wars, changes of rule and faith, and centuries of oppression. They are essentially the tales of the people.
REV. CHARLES SWYNNERTON - 1892
___________
Folk-tales of Kashmir : The Wicked Stepmother
(this tale is somewhat like Lal Badshah, and VERY, VERY much like the Montanus story)
***
The first and oldest story is the one that Martin Montanus published in 1560: (in Das ander Teil der Gartengesellschaft 1560) Ein schöne history von einer frawen mitt zweyen kindlin.
A fine history of a woman with 2 young girls... As I said, that story was so popular, it was known to Goethe 150 years later.
The villains in that story are a step-mother and the elder of two sisters... oddly enough, both of the sisters are daughters of the guy the step-mother married, and it’s the younger daughter who gets abandoned in the forest...
now just like the Holzhackers, this family is poor, but as far as motivation goes, there’s no famine mentioned... and while it’s obvious that the stepmother has no love for the heroine, what gives with her sibling...? exactly why she hates her little sister and wants her to die is a complete mystery...
yeah I get the sibling rivalry thing... but acting that out in cahoots with an evil step-mother, well, that’s pretty extreme... even for a fairytale... in fact you gotta think that an older sister isn’t even a logical necessity for the sake of the plot...
there’s gotta be some interesting literary or psychological reason for it, but we’re not gonna spend any time trying to suss that out... not here and not now...
[thank you]
The next oldest tale is Giambattista Basile's Nennillo and Nennilla — first published in his Pentamerone in the 17th century (1634-1636). It has a young brother and sister who both get abandoned, and like the Montanus tale makes no mention of famine. Instead, Basile plays the step-mother card... and he throws it down with a vengeance...
🎶 inquisition splash! 🎶
in a kind of brief introduction to the story, he plays up a crass cliché regarding every woman’s distaste for stepchildren as the basis for the entire story.
…non essennose visto maie matreia che mirasse de buon uocchio le razze d'autro…
[oh no!]
The next oldest story is Perrault’s Le Petit Poucet (published in 1697). Perrault not only uses the real mother, his is the first of these stories to cite famine as the precipitating event. He also has the father act as villain — having this guy coming up with the idea of child abandonment all on his own, and then forcing his wife to go along with it against her wishes.
[group-shocked]
The 4th story, is Madame D'Aulnoy's version: Finette Cendron. It was published in 1698 — only 1 year after Perrault’s tale — and it has neither a step-mother, nor a famine. Instead, the parents of 3 young girls are a king and queen who “managed their affairs very badly,” and were eventually forced to make some sort of honest living.
[ugh...! well, then!]
Il était une fois un roi et une reine qui avaient mal fait leurs affaires.
[ooh la la]
And their decision to uh, downsize the family, turns out to be a cost cutting measure they both agreed on...
[um, yes, you’re getting 2 for the price of 1]
Getting back to Hansel and Gretel, changing this parental detail from mother to step-mother is no minor tweak, and it’s significant for a number of reasons, not least of which because it implies a previous Frau Holzhacker — whose unspoken presence really complicates the metaphor.
[oh no...]
Earlier, I thought it might be pointing us towards a religious sub-text which, if followed, ends up being far more twisted than a möbius strip and way too complicated to even qualify as coherent metaphor.
[oh crap!]
yeah, it really had me twisted in knots trying to follow that busy thread... although it DID lead me back to Greek Mythology and the story of Phrixus and his twin sister, Helle...
***
Phrixus was the twin brother of Helle... He and Helle were hated by their stepmother, Ino. She hatched a devious plot to get rid of the twins, roasting all of Boeotia's crop seeds so they would not grow. The local farmers, frightened of famine, asked a nearby oracle for assistance. Ino bribed the men sent to the oracle to lie and tell the others that the oracle required the sacrifice of Phrixus and Helle....
***
fortunately for all of us, I happen to have finally discovered the real reason the Grimms made this step-mother change... and I’m dying to spill the beans on it... but I think it’s better if I continue to provide more context and save that information for the bonus episode I proposed in Episode 20...
[that is SO typical]
In general, the characterization of a nasty step-mother is another cultural cliché... namely, that no woman can naturally love the children of her husband’s former wife. As Basile put it: “...if by chance such a (woman) were ever found, she would be regarded as a miracle, and be called a white crow.”
Woe to him who thinks to find a governess for his children by giving them a stepmother! He only brings into his house the cause of their ruin. There never yet was a stepmother who looked kindly on the children of another; or if by chance such a one were ever found, she would be regarded as a miracle, and be called a white crow.
Librivox recording of the Stories from Pentamerone by Giambattista Basile. Read by Joy Chan.
[crows]
Not only do the children represent a subliminal intrusion of the ex-wife,
[crow]
just like a young child after the birth of a first sibling, a step-mother can simply be jealous of the children themselves.
[certainly!]
The unspoken presumption in fairytales — if not in real life — is that conjugal love and affection is a zero-sum game...
[oh absolutely]
and these witchy step-mothers want their husbands’ attention and affection all to themselves.
[I own you]
Of course, a spouse's divided attention can't be helped when there are children involved — and really, how is it that love could be diminished by being shared with more than one person?
[do you know that I hate little kids? well, I do now.]
So in the case of an evil step-mother, we have someone suffering the delusion that there isn't enough love to go around, and who therefore punishes and scapegoats those she holds responsible for her problem.
[not good]
In Basile’s tale, the cliché of the step-mother is so strong that no famine or natural catastrophe is required to provide motivation for abandoning the children... this Grimm’s revision turns the famine into an excuse for the new Frau Holzhacker to act out her presumably repressed feelings.
[this is lame]
well, actually it is... see, whether or not she’s starved for affection, she, herself, has got to be a real narcissist... someone who experiences life as a famine... so she must have already been itching to remedy that situation by eliminating her competition—not to mention, symbolically feeding off them—because, once again, there is no getting around the not-so-secret identification of this witchy woman with the witch.
[oh dear, THAT’s rather alarming]
But this only explains why you need to add a famine to the story if the villain is the natural mother... and then again, ONLY if the mother is a stone cold narcissist... these days we know a helluva lot more about the the whole idea of narcissistic parents... and the original Frau Holzhacker definitely fits the description...
[this is the biggest pile of crap I’ve ever heard]
playing the step-mother card when there’s already a famine seems like a silly case of over-kill — except I’ve discovered why the Grimms chose to do so... and as I said, I’m saving that info for a bonus episode...
[if you’re not going to do it just say you’re not going to do it!]
for now, let’s just say that their addition of the step-mother does more than introduce a natural antipathy towards the children. It introduces the oddly important fact that there was a prior marriage, with a prior wife: something that we’ll have cause to discuss much later on in the story.
[this is the moment, the moment you've been waiting for!]
uh, no it’s not... right now, we’ve got bigger fish to fry... or should I say, small fry...
[dad joke groans]
we’re about to catch our very first glimpse of Hansel and Gretel as individuals...
[catch me, if you can]
[oh brother]
*🎶*🎶*
PART 3 [32:32]
Teil drei:
In which we turn on the waterworks and raise a few feminist hackles
[sound of anger]
[son of a bitch!]
Aber die Kinder hatten alles gehört, was die Mutter gesagt hatte das Schwesterchen fing an gar sehr zu weinen, das Brüderchen sagte ihm es solle still seyn und tröstete es.
But the children heard everything the mother said, so the sister began to cry terribly, and the brother hushed and comforted her.
Obviously, this isn't the first activity of the children, since we were informed in the last step that they heard everything the mother said. And yeah, we’re still talking about the natural mother... not only because that’s what the manuscript version is telling us... it’s also because the step-mother business is a complication the Grimms first added in their 4th Edition. And while it has a very special significance, I’ll leave that for a bonus episode...
[whatever]
Anyway, this is where the psychological and metaphoric characteristics of the Holzhacker kids start getting fleshed out... They’re no longer generic scapegoats or sacrificial lambs — just as they’re no longer all ears and nothing else. see, they’re starting to show definite personality traits that are unique to each of them...
[interesting]
specifically, Gretel starts crying — presumably — in fear of her life... and by doing so, she’s actually mimicking the terror experienced by her father.
[roger that]
Hansel, who we later learn has a creative, responsible plan in mind, calms and reassures his sister with his genuine empathy and quiet courage.
[oh yeah]
We also know for a fact that it's genuine empathy, and not plain old sympathy, because he shares Gretel's exact same fate.
[aha]
We’re gonna learn a lot more about Hansel in the next few lines of the story. Interestingly though, Gretel's famous exploits come much later on, and only after a repeated emphasis on her doing nothing but crying.
[I know, I know, I know]
so sure, that sounds like perfect grounds for a legitimate feminist beef...
[it shouldn’t happen]
right, well, for now, let’s leave gender out of the equation and concentrate solely on the simple act of crying...
[what’s your deal?]
well, being frightened and crying sounds perfectly logically for any small child, but what does it mean in the context of our story? why did our author make Gretel cry?
[I don’t know]
Certainly having Gretel cry serves to emphasize Hansel's empathy and maturity — as if she were playing straight man to help set up and demonstrate his subsequent competence — but Gretel is much, much more than a bit player or supporting actress.
[I’m not a little girl]
What could she be metaphorically? What does this crying make her?
[I don’t know!]
If we think of Gretel as Enthusiasm, having her cry is consistent with the idea that our own enthusiasm can be such a delicate flower and can be so easily damaged by an overbearing parent or authority figure — not to mention any of those myriad, run-of-the-mill trolls that social media has emboldened...
[I don’t want to tell you]
Crying would also be an honest and innocent first reaction to learning that the parents have such a dark, evil plan in mind.
[I know]
The sudden change of situation in which they’re forced to leave the nest without adequate preparation is as unfair as it is unnatural.
[oh my god]
So this would also make Gretel Innocence, but not necessarily Naiveté.
[I am listening]
What's most obvious is that she’s frightened to the point of tears, and not only reacts like a helpless child, but is pretty much treated like one by her empathic brother — who seems more like a responsible, caring parent than either of the parents they have.
[shit]
Is Gretel supposed to be Beauty? Is she just another fairytale cliché of the fair damsel in distress, with an eventual feminist twist?
[stop please]
Okay, so instead of groping around for human characteristics that fail to cover Gretel's deceptively complex character, let’s apply the Jungian model of consciousness to these two children...
[please don’t do that]
seriously, just bear with me...
like it or not, the Jungian model gives us an apt and powerful framework for arriving at THE most reasonable hypothesis concerning the psychological and metaphoric identity of these kids. It not only cuts through all sorts of cultural — or even Freudian — clichés, it offers a moderately scientific point of departure for further consideration.
[words, words, words]
Hey, instead of a seeming endless number of possible, maybe even likely, human attributes, we only need to choose from four possibilities: Thinking, Feeling, Sensation and Intuition—our Four cognitive Functions of Consciousness.
[which one?]
well, of these 4, the most likely candidate for Gretel's identity—at least so far—seems to be the Feeling Function.
[wow!]
Maybe we're being premature in our assessment — especially since we’re basing it solely on her crying — but hey, this is only a hypothesis. We're still free to change our mind and adjust our hypothesis if this experimental metaphor falls apart or if further evidence proves us wrong.
[great, awesome]
[everything is good]
*🎶*🎶*
PART 4 [39:54]
Teil vier:
In which we partner up and make a very bold prediction
[your dreams will surely come true!]
um, not that kind of prediction
[soon, my friend, your soul will be mine]
uh, not that kind either
So, if Gretel is the Feeling Function of this 4-square Consciousness — that’s going to help us figure out which Function Hansel represents...
[how?]
well, hang on for a sec... because that’s still going to depend on the clues we’ll be finding in subsequent lines of the fairytale. Of course, by itself, Hansel’s role as parental surrogate — in response to Gretel's crying — isn’t specific enough for us to identify him as any of the remaining 3 Functions of Consciousness...
That said, the Grimms provided us with one extra clue that’s worth contemplating. And they did it right from the get-go, by adding it in their very first 1812 edition. It's still not enough to confirm which of the Four Functions Hansel represents, but it’s remarkable enough to be consistent with our final and definitive assessment.
***
1812:
Gretel dachte, nun ist es um mich geschehen und fing erbärmlich an zu weinen, Hänsel aber sprach: „sey still, Gretel, und gräm dich nicht, ich will uns helfen.“
Gretel thought: now it’s all over for us, and she began to cry miserably. But Hansel said: “Don’t worry, I’ll figure this out for the both of us.”
***
1847:
Grethel wept bitter tears, and said to Hansel, 'Now all is over with us.' 'Be quiet, Grethel,' said Hansel, 'do not distress thyself, I will soon find a way to help us.'
When the Grimms put these specific words of comfort into Hansel's mouth — presumably for the sake of enlivening the bare-bones style of the manuscript — they gave us a sneak peek at a very specific attribute: In response to Gretel's Fear, Sensitivity and apparent Weakness, there’s Empathy, as I said, in Hansel’s words, but now there’s also Confidence. I mean, in the manuscript version, Hansel doesn’t do much more than coo at Gretel and gently shush her... so later on, the Grimms have him doing the same thing, but they also have him say that he’s gonna find a solution...
[yeah...]
once again, Gretel's Fear and Sensitivity serves to emphasize Hansel's Strength and Confidence — although whether or not this is pure bravado on his part remains to be seen. Of course we all know the outcome, and realize that Gretel proves to be anything but weak and helpless, but let's concentrate solely on Hansel's confident words.
[okee dokee]
Even if he’s just whistling in the dark, what is it he's so confident about? What's the meaning of his Confidence at this point? And where does it come from...?
[I don’t think you know]
Having confidence in ourselves — Self-Confidence — is a human ideal that makes for success in meeting everything life can throw at us... from the mundane to the cosmic... from paper jams to pink slips...
[I hate Mondays]
It means being confident in our creative and courageous ability to not only overcome obstacles — but overcome our fears concerning them. In other words, this Confidence has just as much to do with Creativity as bravery or Courage. And so Courage, Confidence and Empathy are all attributes that Hansel is showing us.
If we add Creativity and Sensitivity to that mix, we're really talking about both Children as a pair. Oddly enough, while many of the qualities the Children display seem to be missing in the Parents, the children also seem to be a mirror image of their parents... specifically: Father and Daughter are both in despair over what to do, while Mother and Son both seem to know what it will take to do the job.
[wow]
as I said before, in terms of Typology, these positive traits of the children may not necessarily be specific to any one Function... instead, they might be more specific to a coupling or pair of Functions. And according to the Jungian model, Feeling will always be coupled with either Sensation or Intuition...
[really?]
yeah, and if Gretel really is the Feeling Function, that would make Hansel either Sensation or Intuition...
[ooh]
So just think about that interesting little speech the Grimms wrote for Hansel "...everything will be alright, I'll find a way to help us..." What he’s literally doing there is PREDICTING the future...
[seriously?]
and for my money, that corresponds more to Intuition than any of the other Functions.
[Welcome to the new millenium. It’s just as we predicted. Picture phones, space stations....]
And whaddya know, we’re gonna find out, that Hansel is, indeed, the Intuitive Function...
[oh my god]
see, this story is so much more powerful than a simple cautionary tale... it actually shows us what happens to our own creativity and creative impulses when the shit hits the fan... and we’ve chosen to ignore or ditch them in favor of survival...
[not good]
in other words, when we turn down Option B —
[sound of Option B]
the Hero’s Journey — in favor of complying with what the culture expects from us, which is always and only Option A
🤖 [do not try to run. do not try to escape. enter the trains in an orderly manner. do not panic. you will be taken care of. do not run. do not panic. do not resist.] 🤖
[yikes!]
And maybe the most valid point the story makes is that we can actually trust our creativity to know how to navigate Option B...
[I know the way]
For sure, it takes the difficult work of attention and consciousness — sucking it up and raising our level of consciousness... paying attention and holding on to something our culture wants us to get rid of: our Intuition and our Feelings...
[try to be brave now]
In any case, Hansel and Gretel both show us that we can trust our creativity to know what to do, even without our conscious interference, because both of these children — and the Functions they represent — may just be the driving force behind our own Creativity... And that alone, my dear listeners, friends and supporters speaks volumes about the wisdom and hopefulness of fairytales...
[begin adventure]
🎶 Dubakupado 🎶
In our next episode, little Hansel is gonna get up and tip-toe out the door... and before we can follow him out into the night, we’re gonna have to go low when others would go high... so get ready for a limbo party that even Michelle Obama would love...
[any questions please?]
so if you DO have any questions, you can always go to the website and click on the
you know the drill:
[visit us on the web at www...]
betweenthelines.xyz
alrighty then...
thanks for listening
and ciao a tutti...
***😆 keep listening for some silly outtakes 😆 ***
*Chapter Titles read by Anna Jacobsen*
*German Fairytale Reading by Jürgen Lexow*
*Librivox recording of Hansel and Gretel read by Bob Neufeld*
*Librivox recording of Nennillo and Nennella read by Joy Chan*
Music Credits:
*🎶*🎶* Bleeping Demo by Kevin MacLeod of filmmusic.io
🎶 Anachronist 🎶 by Kevin MacLeod and licensed under filmmusic.io/standard-license
🎶 Dubakupado 🎶 by Kevin MacLeod and licensed under filmmusic.io/standard-license
kristo's awesome Peanut Gallery
(most, courtesy of freesound.org)
@00:00 “anybody here?” courtesy of alphahog and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@00:02 “what's the location?” courtesy of ERH and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@00:04 “Welcome aboard...” courtesy of planetfrog and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@00:11 "What am I doing here...???" - Everything you always wanted to know about sex*
@00:18 “immature audiences...” courtesy of cognito perceptu and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@00:23 “it shouldn't be allowed” courtesy of Tim Kahn and Amy Gedgaudas and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@00:26 🎶 heavenly choir 🎶 courtesy of liezen3 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@00:29 F-Bombs um, warning: (special) thanks to our good friend Ame Sanders of stateofinclusion.com
@00:42 “not again” courtesy of xtrgamr and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@00:43 🧨 🧨 🧨 nuclear F-Bomb blast 💥︎ 💥︎ 💥︎ courtesy of CGEffex and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@00:49 🎶 creepy organ 🎶 courtesy of Aeonemi and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@00:57 🎶 deep church bell 🎶 courtesy of Aeonemi and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@01:06 "that’s bad" courtesy of Reitanna Seishin and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@01:11 "...often enough" courtesy of clivew and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@01:24 "oh, you back again?" courtesy of pyro13djt and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@02:32 “what’s that, you say?” courtesy of Stewartcolbourn and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@03:03 "ha, ha, right" courtesy of itinerantmonk108 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@03:42 “who cares?” courtesy of ballOOnhead and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@03:58 "oooh" courtesy of brunchik and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@04:39 "are you kidding me!?" courtesy of LittleRainySeasons and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@05:05 “whatever” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@06:31 "awww" courtesy of vahdena and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@06:49 "boo! (couple of people)" courtesy of jayfrosting and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@07:01 "anything you want..." courtesy of nuncaconci and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@07:12 “uh oh!” courtesy of xtrgamr and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
PART 1 / Teil eins @07:20
@07:38 “boring night syndrome” courtesy of owyheesound and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@08:17 "I think we should" courtesy of nuncaconci and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@09:06 "spaghetti" courtesy of Nighteller and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@09:16 "OOOH!!!" - SNL
@10:38 “No Sir!” courtesy of theuncertainman and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@11:30 “No Fair!” courtesy of owly-bee and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@11:52 "chimpanzees" courtesy of pyro13djt and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@12:38 "why!?" courtesy of Reitanna Seishin and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@13:47 “...hormonally confused” courtesy of SCICOFILMS.com and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@13:59 dad joke groans" courtesy of TeamMasaka and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@15:07 "what?” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@15:30 “I don't know" courtesy of kurtless and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@16:02 "I want my pizza right now..." courtesy of Deathstardude and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@16:07 "ahem" courtesy of Alivvie and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@16:50 “yeah, so what?” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@17:12 "frozen pizzas" courtesy of Sean-TE0 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@17:33 "you sure do have your problems" courtesy of the_semen_incident and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@18:06 “what’s that?” courtesy of ballOOnhead and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@18:17 “some people...” courtesy of owly-bee and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@18:36 “good shit!” courtesy of canadianadam and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@18:50 "why won’t you share?" courtesy of nuncaconci and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@19:22 “No!” courtesy of theuncertainman and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@20:07 “WWWs…” courtesy of WillFitch1 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@20:07 “absolutely not!” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
PART 2 / Teil zwei @20:23
@20:36 “I’m a simple man…” courtesy of Airborne80 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@20:47 “capisce?" courtesy of Airborne80 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@21:07 🎶 inquisition splash 🎶 - MP
@21:20 “what is wrong...?” courtesy of Tim Kahn and Amy Gedgaudas and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@21:25 “no. it's not.” courtesy of ballOOnhead and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@22:06 “No!” courtesy of theuncertainman and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@22:16 ""...if you insist" courtesy of bogenseeberg and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@23:54 "thank you" courtesy of Legnalegna55 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@24:26 🎶 "inquisition splash" - MP
@24:41 "oh no" courtesy of Legnalegna55 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@25:14 "group-shocked!" courtesy of thanvannispen and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@25:49 "...well, then!" courtesy of Reitanna Seishin and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@25:58 “ooh la la” courtesy of Tim Kahn and Amy Gedgaudas and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@26:10"2 for 1" courtesy of MatteusNova and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@26:37 and 26:56 “oh, no...! / oh crap!” courtesy of AmeAngelofSin and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@27:35 “that is so typical” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@28:20 "crow cawing" courtesy of nigelcoop and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@28:30 "crow cawing" courtesy of egomassive and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@28:41 “certainly!” courtesy of bectec and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@28:54 “oh, absolutely!” courtesy of bectec and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@29:03 “I own you” courtesy of carmsie and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@29:19 "little kids" courtesy of MatteusNova and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@29:40 "not good" courtesy of nooc and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@30:04 "this is lame" courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@30:40 "alarming" courtesy of pyro13djt and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@31:07 "pile of crap" courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@31:29 “just say so!” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License@31:54 "this is the moment..." courtesy of RoivasUGO and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@32:08 dad joke groans" courtesy of TeamMasaka and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@32:21 "catch me” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@32:27 "oh brother!" courtesy of max_cristos and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
PART 3 Teil drei @32:32
@32:42 "sound of anger" courtesy of Reitanna Seishin and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@32:45 "sound of anger" courtesy of pyro13djt and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@32:47 “uh oh!” courtesy of DWOBoyle and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@33:50 “whatever” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@34:17 "interesting..." courtesy of Reitanna Seishin and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@24:41 "roger that" courtesy of Legnalegna55 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@34:46 "oh yeah" courtesy of Legnalegna55 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@34:57 "aha" courtesy of Legnalegna55 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@35:15 "I know” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@35:24 "it shouldn't happen” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@35:37 "what's your deal?” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@35:54 “I don't know" courtesy of kurtless and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@35:54 "I don’t know!" courtesy of nuncaconci and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@36:46 "...tell you” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@36:57 "I know” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@37:12 "oh my god” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@37:12 "I'm listening” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@37:40 "shit” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@37:53 "stop please” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@38:12 "please, don’t do that" courtesy of girlhurl and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@38:43 "words, words, words” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@39:06 "which one?” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@39:21 "wow” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@39:45 "great...awesome” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@39:48 "all good” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
PART 4 / Teil vier @39:54
@40:03 “...come true” courtesy of owly-bee and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@40:08 "soon, my friend...” courtesy of AmeAngelofSin and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@40:31 "how?" courtesy of nuncaconci and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@42:28 “yeah...” courtesy of bectec and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@42:54 “okee dokee” courtesy of bectec and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@43:10 "I don't think you know" courtesy of jhyland and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@43:31 “I hate Mondays” courtesy of Tim Kahn and Amy Gedgaudas and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@44:34 "wow" courtesy of Legnalegna55 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@45:03 "really...?" courtesy of juror2 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@45:13 "oooh" courtesy of brunchik and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@45:32 "seriously?" courtesy of Alivvie and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@45:41 “as we predicted.” courtesy of FreqMan and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@26:10 "2 for 1" courtesy of MatteusNova and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@46:17 "not good" courtesy of nooc and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
***
Option B @46:23
🎶 deep church bell 🎶 courtesy of Aeonemi and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
guy yells courtesy of IPaddeh and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
***
@46:38 🤖 “do not resist...” 🤖 courtesy of Airborne80 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@46:56 “Yikes!" courtesy of jorickhoofd and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@47:06 "I know the way" courtesy of bogenseeberg and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@47:28 “try to be brave” courtesy of Tim Kahn and Amy Gedgaudas and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@48:02 “begin adventure” courtesy of hatchetgirl and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
@48:26 "any questions, please?" courtesy of bogenseeberg and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution License
@48:37 “WWWs…” courtesy of WillFitch1 and freesound.org
This work is licensed under the Creative Commons 0 License
got a question, or just want to say hi...?