In episode 22 there’s a Medieval Mr. Rogers Moment as we watch Hansel getting ready to make some real magic
Part 1 [06:59] - In which we watch the little brother escape all conscious control; we send Penn and Teller up the tree, and then we get ready for some real magic when the Grimms hand us a Grimoire
Part 2 [20:08] - In which the Grimms give us a Medieval Mr. Rogers moment, and then invite us to a limbo party of biblical proportion
[brace yourselves!]
[the following presentation is intended ONLY for immature audiences]
[oh my God...]
😇 🎶 heavenly choir 🎶 😇
["And God said 'Let there be F-Bombs' — And they were good — And they multiplied — Right here, in this podcast…"]
[uh oh]
🧨 🧨 🧨 [nuclear blast] 💥︎ 💥︎ 💥︎ 95745
🎶 dramatic organ music 🎶
🎶 [church bell] 🎶
bless me Father, for I have sinned, it’s been about a month since my last episode...
[I hope your medical insurance is up to date]
[yikes!]
[oh boy]
🎶 Anachronist 🎶
Hi there, and welcome to Episode 22 of the Hansel and Gretel Code
[not again]
uh, well... ‘fraid so
[I thought I heard something]
In our last episode we heard that the children heard everything the father heard from the mother...
[I heard that]
and then we heard Gretel crying
[sound of crying]
[what was that?]
well, that was Gretel crying...
[oh boy]
and then we heard her brother comforting her...
[I paid $5 to hear THAT?]
we also heard him say he was gonna fix things...
[Idle boasting, I assure you]
[this is the biggest pile of crap I’ve ever heard]
based on all of that, um, hearsay, we decided that Gretel probably represents the Feeling Function... and Hansel probably represents the Intuitive function...
[what are you talking about?]
you know, how we figured those 4 Functions of Consciousness might be the best way to understand what this fairytale is actually trying to tell us...
remember?
[no!]
well, we’re talking about Thinking, Feeling, Sensation and Intuition... the 4 ways we humans have of taking in and processing reality...
each of us as individuals have all 4 of those Functions, although depending on which of the 2 we lean on most heavily, and which of the 2 we’d rather not touch with a ten foot pole, they correspond to, and actually determine, our style or type of personality... in other words, our typology
[pseudo intellectual bullshit]
yeah well, I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but we’ve decided to use our understanding of Jung’s Typology as an innovative compass for finding our way through this fairytale and sussing out its secrets — secrets meant to rescue our culture from the modern day witches who already have us locked in a cage, and just can’t wait to have us for lunch...
[bollix, just bollix]
well, you may not believe me, but I’m not trying to convince you of anything...
[bullshit, bullshit, bullshit]
if you stick with me through the whole fairytale, you’re at least gonna be entertained... if not super-pleasantly-surprised...
[let me tell you why that is bullshit]
geeze, louise...
so given the basic facts of jungian typology and those 4 Functions of Consciousness - which most people know, or at least have heard of through that whole Meyers-Briggs thingy — it seems more than logical that Gretel’s crying might best mean she corresponds to the Feeling Function...
[don’t judge me, please]
in the case of Hansel, it would have been way too early in the story for us to figure out which of the Functions he represents... except, whaddya know...
[what?]
the Grimms added a cheeky little clue in that regard by having Hansel confidently say he would soon find a way to help the two of them out of their predicament... in other words, the Grimms had Hansel predicting the future... an activity of clairvoyance commonly associated with the Intuitive Function...
[can you see it now?]
and that’s where we are right now...
[who’s going to listen to this?]
well, I guess anyone who either understands all of that typology jazz, or just doesn’t mind hearing a newer, somewhat jungian take on fairytales...
[whatever]
of course based on the evidence so far, all of this can only be a hypothesis — one we’re free to change or adjust as more evidence emerges in the story — although having already spent 11 years working this fairytale through to the end, I can say with confidence that we’ve pretty much nailed it...
Gretel is definitely the Feeling Function and Hansel sure as hell corresponds to the Intuitive Function...
[who cares?]
well, this is a matter of super-serious significance for all of Western Culture, but I’ll leave you to see that for yourself as we move along through the fairytale... all we need to know right now is that there’s so much more between the lines of this story than any simple jungian trope, so let’s get back to it and listen in as the story continues to work its metaphoric magic on all of us...
[I’m listening but I don’t like it]
*🎶*🎶*
PART 1 [06:59]
Teil Eins: In which we watch the little brother escape all conscious control, we send Penn and Teller up the tree, and then we get ready for some real magic when the Grimms hand us a Grimoire
[what the hell is that?]
[it’s not a big truck, it’s a series of tubes]
[it’s an unknown color]
[ahem]
Aber die Kinder hatten alles gehört, was die Mutter gesagt hatte, das Schwesterchen fing an gar sehr zu weinen, das Brüderchen sagte ihm es solle still seyn und tröstete es.
Dann stand er leis auf und ging hinaus vor die Thüre...
But the children heard everything the mother said. The sister began to cry terribly, and the brother hushed and comforted her.
After that, he got up and tiptoed out the door...
[I’m outta here!]
If Hansel truly is the Intuitive function, I think we’re witnessing how intuition normally goes about its business — that is, by tiptoeing out the door and into the night... 🎶 Tip-Toe Through the Tulips 🎶
[ahem]
alright, alright...... ha ha... c’mon... it’s the metaphor showing us how Intuition escapes both conscience and conscious control...
pushing that thought one step further... if the mother and father represent the 2 remaining Functions of Consciousness — Logic and Sensation — it makes total sense that when Intuition is on the job it also escapes the bounds of Logic and the facts of Physics...
[ah, very good]
and those facts of Physics are pretty much what the Sensation Function is all about; what it deals with...
[interesting]
right... and see that’s what sends all of those professional skeptics like Penn and Teller and the amazing Randi right up the tree... and as far as I’m concerned, they can stay up there in their treehouse... which I gotta say, might as well be the juvenile clubhouse of the intuition haters club...
[the meeting is now in order]
see, these guys don’t understand the first thing about intuition, and because they believe their own logic to be infallible, they not only think Intuition is expendable: they hate the very idea of it... and that makes them just like the step-mother Frau Holzhacker...
[you can’t be serious]
well I sure as hell am, but I don’t want this to be a diatribe on skeptics — or a lecture on typology...
still, we’re eventually gonna have to understand a little bit more about these 4 functions because the way they do their thing in real life is pretty much the way the various members of the Holzhacker family do their thing in this fairytale...
and remember back in Episode 1, I spoke about Stephen King’s re-telling of Hansel and Gretel...
[no!]
well, if you’re familiar with the Shawshank Redemption, just think about Andy Dufresne and Redd... and you’ll see how Andy has Gretel in his DNA, while Redd has Hansel in his... in other words, the way those characters act AND the way they’re mis-treated in that story also corresponds to the way Intuition and Feeling do their thing AND get mis-treated in real life...
and make no mistake... in our post-modern zeitgeist, Intuition and Feeling are not only misunderstood, they’ve been relegated to the prison of the Unconscious by the dictates of Western culture...
and sure, that streamlines things in the eyes of the marketplace — which we might as well consider synonymous with Western Culture... but we all pay a heavy price for putting up with the dictates of the marketplace... because — as we learned in Episode 21 — all Creativity depends on those very same functions: Intuition and Feeling...
[seriously?]
well, it does, actually... and to advance the Culture in any meaningful way, we need all 4 Functions of Consciousness to be valued and integrated... not fed to the witch...
see, what I’m getting at here is that the fairytale is all about us... about ourselves as individuals and all of us as a collective... as a Culture...
it’s showing us how our Psyche functions when we’re under the severest sort of psychological stress... and what I mean by Psyche is the sum total of our Consciousness and our Unconscious... I also mean both our collective Psyche — which is the Culture — and our individual, personal Psyche...
according to the metaphors of the fairytale, the problem we all face is not just a chronic scarcity of grace, but the awful moment when what little grace there is completely disappears...
[oh crap!]
and what I’m talking about is a pretty severe depression...
[oh boy, that’s not good]
remember, this literal famine with its lack of bread and resultant hunger is a metaphor indicating a lack of and hunger for something that we’re calling divine grace... which in its turn has become — at least for some of us — a less than satisfying religious abstraction...
[NOOOOO!]
goodness, we’ve all had moments we’ve thought of as being touched by grace, and I know we’d all love to have more of them... but for the most part, that word — and even the religious rituals surrounding it — never seems to satisfy or remedy our real-life lack of and hunger for some real McCoy something else we haven’t yet named...
[Pizza!]
yeah, well, that too... of course, sometimes that lack of satisfaction CAN manifest as a full blown depression...
[NOO!]
although mostly it’s just a chronic case of low-level angst — a sense of unease over something we can’t even put our finger on...
[do we have any cheetos?]
for most of us with typical first-world problems, that un-ease can be way more significant than the depressing, often frightening headlines that hit us in the gut just about every friggen’ morning...
[oh, shit!]
see, in real life, most of us don’t even realize we’re chronically hungry for something we can’t seem to name — beyond calling it happiness or happily ever after...
and as abstractions, happiness and grace are pretty much synonymous...
[just show me the money]
sure, some people call it money, and yes, while money as a problem solver is an easy call to make we’ve been through all that, and found money to be no substitute for grace and that yet un-named something else that grace actually represents...
[how many times have we been over this?]
it’s my opinion that if we COULD give grace a more recognizable name, we might be able to direct our efforts towards finding more of it, and finally take care of this existential hunger and the near-universal angst the lack of it causes...
[oooh]
of course this hunger and angst may not be acute and dire for each and every one of us right now, but it’s something we’ll always be vulnerable to unless we can figure out exactly what the real name of Hansel and Gretel bread and of grace is...
speaking of grace, please remember that I could use the grace of your support...
[inappropriate!]
I’m going to continue making this podcast regardless, because I’ve already discovered the secrets within it... secrets that are vital for ourselves as individuals and for us as a collective... as a culture...
so that’s a given... but I’ve also signed up for that buy me a coffee outfit, ko-fi.com, because, without your support I might never have enough time to finish this work and share it with you...
[go to a therapist!]
so, whaddya know... I got a seriously generous, super-ginormous big gulp from a long-time friend and fellow creator, Mike Gurevich... Mike is the guy who created ilys.com... a seriously awesome on-line writing tool for helping you to concentrate on writing when you’re trying to write...
[oh, really?]
yeah... in other words, ilys allows you to write without that super-pesky distraction of trying to edit while you compose... it really is genius...
and just so you know: this isn’t an ad for Mike and his creation... he’s not my sponsor... I don’t have one and I’m not looking for one... I just appreciate the grace of your support whenever and however it comes... okay?
[no, nope, forget it. forget it.]
and, oh yeah, remember you can find transcripts, links and credits for each episode of the podcast on the website... you know the drill...
[visit us on the web @ wwwww...]
betweenthelines.xyz
alrighty, then... let’s get back to the magical business of calling things by their right names...
[My name is Pinkhemina Diane Pie, but you can call me Pinkie Pie. Everypony does]
[ahem]
see, as far back as antiquity, the practice of magic included the calling up of angels and demons in order to utilize their power for good and for evil purposes... and a vital part of that deal was knowing their names and knowing how to speak them properly...
[ooh]
that’s what Grimoires were all about...
[my name is Billy!]
[okee dokee]
so, according to this fairytale, the first thing we needed to do was give the little brother and the little sister their real-life names... which the Grimms promptly did when they baptized them as Hansel and Gretel... or Hänsel und Gretel...
[ja, ja, it's okay]
Stephen King called them Redd and Andy...
I’m fine with all that, but I’m also giving them their jungian names: Intuition and Feeling...
so get ready for some real magic to come out of that knowledge...
🎶 magic sounds 🎶
[we know your name]
*🎶*🎶*
PART 2 [14:30]
Teil Zwei: In which the Grimms give us a Medieval Mr. Rogers moment and then invite us to a limbo party of biblical proportion
[Hello neighbor. Welcome to this neighborhood. Have you ever seen one of these?]
[I ain’t never seen nothin’ like that before]
[ahem]
the manuscript just tells us that the little brother got up and tiptoed out the door... so let’s listen to the Grimms’ version of events and see if they put any real magic in the story...
Grethel weinte bittere Thränen und sprach zu Hänsel „nun ists um uns geschehen.“
„Still, Grethel,“ sprach Hänsel, „gräme dich nicht, ich will uns schon helfen.“
Und als die Alten eingeschlafen waren, stand er auf, zog sein Röcklein an, machte die Unterthüre auf und schlich sich hinaus.
Gretel wept bitter tears and said to Hansel, 'Now it is all over with us.'
'Be quiet, Gretel,' said Hansel. 'Do not distress yourself, I will soon find a way to help us.' And when the old folks had fallen asleep, he got up, put on his little coat, opened the door below, and crept outside.
The Grimms added the jacket and lower door business to their original, 1812 edition, and by the time they got to their final, 1857 revision they made sure Hansel waited for his parents to fall asleep.
[yeah, so what?]
However we might interpret these extra details, the final revision reminds us that Intuition has a life and will of its own, not to mention a strength we're often blind to. Whether or not the Grimms intended for us to interpret things that way, well, that certainly seems like a stretch — at least at this point — doesn’t it...?
[yes sir!]
Actually, I think we’re all in for a surprise on that point...
[really?]
yup... for now, though, let’s just continue doing our own thing and keep looking for the magic in the metaphors...
[okay]
So, what about that jacket? Why is it mentioned, and what could it represent?
[I don’t know]
It's clear later on that a literal jacket, having pockets, is a necessary plot device, so couldn’t we just leave it at that: a simple bit of script continuity housekeeping on the part of the Grimms?
[I think that we should do that]
Then again, continuity in the metaphors tells us that it’s a necessary, even important, tool, so as a metaphor, maybe it’s something similar to a professional garment...
[huh?]
you know — something like a doctor's white coat, or a soldier’s uniform... hell, it even makes me think of Mr. Rogers putting on his cardigan...
[oh yeah, very nice]
and what I mean is, it could symbolize a kind of professional attitude... the point being that a professional garment actually has an almost magical ability to affect the attitude of the person wearing it...
[hmmm]
so if we allow it to have a meaning like that, putting on the jacket signals a particular mindset and intention. And according to what we’re gonna learn later, that intention just might have something to do with the actual practice of Magic. That is: what we think of as Magick with a K — something that we’re going to see has everything to do with the workings of our very own intuition...
[oh no, you can’t be serious, that is some bullshit right there]
whoa...! calm down there tiger... just let your logic take a snooze, and let your intuition do it’s thing, okay?
[hey you. go to bed. now!]
[ahem]
next we come to this lower door business... which probably means the lower half of a double hung or dutch door. you know what I mean...
[ugh, no.]
hey, you can always look it up on wikipedia... I’ll leave a link...
The logical implication here is that the child is short enough to only need the lower half of the door to be open. while making it clear that Hansel is too short to reach the top half, leaving the top half closed might also make it seem to a less than astute adult that the door is still closed.
[well, I don’t know]
in other words, this double hung / dutch door business has us knocking on the door of what the adults know and what they don’t know — meaning we’ve just broached the subject of epistemology...
[3 women scream]
[oh dear god!]
[oh no!]
hang on, don’t worry... we’re not going to open the door on THAT subject...
[thank you]
all we need to say about it is that epistemology is the study of how we know what we know... which is actually what Typology is all about — how we know and process Reality as well as all the stuff that doesn’t seem real...
[I see six flowers]
[what the hell is this?]
[I see seven chairs]
[I see these things now]
[all I can see is the end]
[ahem]
this Dutch door business fits with a specific idea about typology concerning those 4 Functions of Consciousness: specifically that there’s an upper / or dominant coupling and a lower / or inferior coupling... and as soon as the dominant coupling drops into unconsciousness / or goes to sleep — as the Grimms have indicated — the inferior coupling takes over and springs into action... or, as we’re seeing, at least one half of it does...
now another aspect of this half door symbolism is that having only the lower half open means Consciousness would have to stoop down low in order to get through...
[seriously?]
of course that would not only be inconvenient, it seems logically stupid, right?
[oh absolutely]
unless you’re having a limbo party, all you’d have to do would be open the top half and now you’ve got the entire door open... right?
[affirmative!]
it’s only logical
[amen!]
yeah well, forget logical, we’re talking metaphorical...
[excuse me, what?]
you see, in typical Grimm's fashion, they’ve pointed us in the direction of more biblical symbolism...
[what?]
well, in this instance, we’ve got 3 evangelists of the New Testament saying pretty much the exact same thing on the subject in question...
[oh God, Oh Jesus]
uh yup... exactly!
so let me give you the shortest one
[please, don’t do that]
don’t worry, this will only take a second...
🎶 church bell 🎶
Luke 18:15-17
15 People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them.
16 But Jesus called the children to him and said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
17 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.'
***
Matthew 18:1-5
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, 'Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'
2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them.
3 And he said: 'Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
5 And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.'
Mark 10:13-15
13 People were bringing little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them, but the disciples rebuked them.
14 When Jesus saw this, he was indignant. He said to them, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these.
15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.'
16 And he took the children in his arms, placed his hands on them and blessed them.
***
[that is so not funny]
well, enough of the little children business... in our next episode, we’re all gonna get a snootful of moonshine...
[oh, good!]
actually, over the course of the next couple of episodes, we’re gonna get to know Hansel a whole lot better by, um examining his, uh, stones...
[what?]
and we’re gonna do that by the light of the moon...
[listen to them, children of the night... what music they make...]
🎶 Tip-Toe Through the Tulips 🎶
alrighty then... ciao a tutti...
[ciao, ciao]
got a question, or just want to say hi...?
*Chapter Titles read by Anna Jacobsen*
*German Fairytale Reading by Jürgen Lexow*
*Librivox recording of Hansel and Gretel read by Bob Neufeld*
Music Credits
*🎶*🎶* Bleeping Demo by Kevin MacLeod of filmmusic.io
🎶 Anachronist 🎶 by Kevin MacLeod and licensed under filmmusic.io/standard-license
🎶 Tip-toe Thru The Tulips With Me 🎶 (Burke and Dubin) from the Oscar Grogan Collection 1927-1931 on archive.org — publication date: 1929 — courtesy of the Kahle/Austin Foundation
kristo's awesome Peanut Gallery
(most, courtesy of freesound.org)
@00:00 "brace yourselves!" courtesy of unfa and freesound.org
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@00:23 “uh oh!” courtesy of xtrgamr and freesound.org
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@00:29 🎶 creepy organ 🎶 courtesy of Aeonemi and freesound.org
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PART 1 / Teil Eins @06:59
@07:20 "what the hell is this?” courtesy of afterguard and freesound.org
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@15:40 “how many times...?” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
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@16:01 "oh!" courtesy of DrFortyseven and freesound.org
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@16:29 “inappropriate!” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
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@17:02 “go to a therapist!” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
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@17:33 "oh, really?" courtesy of xyahka and freesound.org
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@18:05 “no, forget it!” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
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@18:20 “WWWs…” courtesy of WillFitch1 and freesound.org
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@18:38 “call me Pinkie Pie...” courtesy of Reitanna Seishin and freesound.org
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@18:43 "ahem" courtesy of Alivvie and freesound.org
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@19:05 "oooh" courtesy of brunchik and freesound.org
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@19:10 "my name is Billy!" courtesy of MadamVicious and freesound.org
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@19:15 “okee dokee” courtesy of bectec and freesound.org
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@19:35 "ja, ja, it's okay” courtesy of Roses1401 and freesound.org
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@19:57 “magic sounds” courtesy of hz37 and freesound.org
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@19:59 “we know your name” courtesy of bertie343 and freesound.org
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@20:04 “uh oh!” courtesy of DWOBoyle and freesound.org
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PART 2 / Teil Zwei @20:08
@20:24 "Hello neighbor..." - Fred Rogers
@20:31 “I ain't never seen...” courtesy of alphahog and freesound.org
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@20:35 "ahem" courtesy of Alivvie and freesound.org
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@21:57 “yes sir!” courtesy of theuncertainman and freesound.org
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@22:04 "really...?" courtesy of juror2 and freesound.org
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@22:15 "okay" courtesy of MatteusNova and freesound.org
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@22:24 “I don't know" courtesy of kurtless and freesound.org
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@22:40 "I think we should..." courtesy of nuncaconci and freesound.org
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@22:57 “huh???” courtesy of a13389 and freesound.org
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@24:27 "ahem" courtesy of Alivvie and freesound.org
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@23:11 "oh yeah..." - Tom Hagen
@23:31 "hmm..." courtesy of agent vivid
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@24:03 "oh no, you can't be serious..." courtesy of cognito perceptu and freesound.org
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@24:16 “hey you, go to bed!” courtesy of cafenoar and freesound.org
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@24:40 "uh, no" courtesy of BlueSiren and freesound.org
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@25:12 “I don't know” courtesy of itinerantmonk108 and freesound.org
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@25:31 3 women scream courtesy of thanvannispen and freesound.org
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@25:34 "oh dear God!” courtesy of metrostock99 and freesound.org
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@25:36 “oh, no!” courtesy of AmeAngelofSin and freesound.org
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@25:43 "thank you" courtesy of Legnalegna55 and freesound.org
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@26:02 "I see 6 flowers" courtesy of margo_heston and freesound.org
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@26:05 "what the hell is this?” courtesy of afterguard and freesound.org
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@26:07 "I see seven chairs" courtesy of margo_heston and freesound.org
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@26:10 “I see these things now” courtesy of AlienXXX and freesound.org
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@26:12 "all I can see is the end" courtesy of thatjeffcarter and freesound.org
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@26:15 "ahem" courtesy of Alivvie and freesound.org
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@27:06 "seriously?” courtesy of metrostock99 and freesound.org
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@27:15 “oh absolutely” courtesy of bectec and freesound.org
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@27:27 “affirmative” courtesy of bectec and freesound.org
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@27:30 “amen!” courtesy of bectec and freesound.org
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@27:37 “excuse me, what?” courtesy of bectec and freesound.org
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@27:46 "what?!?" courtesy of Reitanna Seishin and freesound.org
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@27:57 “oh God, oh Jesus” courtesy of Reitanna Seishin and freesound.org
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@28:05 "please, don’t do that" courtesy of girlhurl and freesound.org
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@28:10 🎶 church bell 🎶 courtesy of Aeonemi and freesound.org
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@28:44 “that is so not funny” courtesy of deleted_user_1390811 and freesound.org
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@28:57 “oh, good” courtesy of Iceofdoom and freesound.org
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@29:11 "What!" courtesy of Reitanna Seishin and freesound.org
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@29:17 "listen to them... children of the night..." - Bela Lugosi
@30:06 "ciao, ciao" courtesy of Nighteller and freesound.org
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got a question, or just want to say hi...?
Episode 21 - I got a funny feeling about this / Episode 23 - He’s on a Mission from God